Danseuse810 (11:40:40 AM): seems like Columbus is sucking up to the people he wants something from
Fallenskye89 (11:40:57 AM): that kinda goes back to how he said that he mentioned gold on every page of the journals for the spanish
cool3cubed (11:41:02 AM): eh thats how it works. you want something done so you suck up
Danseuse810 (11:41:30 AM): yeah, he talks about gold and glory when he talks to Ferdinand and Isabella
Secondly, Columbus went out on a mission for the glory of the church and the pope. In order to get the Pope's blessing he had to show that he was a pious man and wanted to convert those not of the Christian faith to see the light. Here's a little more of the transcript from class.
Danseuse810 (11:43:06 AM): but the pope could say no you dont have my support and im going to turn people against you
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (11:43:20 AM): he would have been dumb too
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (11:43:35 AM): turning down expansion of catholicism...what he represents?
cool3cubed (11:43:36 AM): well thats true especially since spain was a catholic country and looked to the pope for guidance
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (11:43:47 AM): doesnt make sense
Fallenskye89 (11:44:02 AM): at the time everything was so strongly rooted in religion
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (11:44:21 AM): agreed
Fallenskye89 (11:44:33 AM): If you want support from the country and the people you need to be in sync with their religion
Danseuse810 (11:44:35 AM): but if columbus didnt talk about God the pope would have said he would not support him because he is not pious
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (11:45:42 AM): yeah..so doesnt that support the point that the pope had to back columbus because he was representing catholicism and spreading the religion
There is an agreement amongst us that Columbus, in the end was more interested in gold than in Christianity itself, but in order to get the popes blessing he had to show that he was a pious man.
Finally, Columbus went for glory. This is a fact undisputed in all areas of thought. Columbus wanted power and honor from any discoveries he might have made.
Fallenskye89 (12:18:46 PM): i don't think he was capable of understanding their culture, but at the same time I don't know that columbus really wanted to understand thier culture
cool3cubed (12:18:55 PM): yea
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (12:19:04 PM): thats a good point
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (12:19:15 PM): i know this sounds terrible
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (12:19:34 PM): but when experiencing a new culture...sometimes people assume their is better because they find the other intimidating
xBrOwN EyE GrRrL (12:19:55 PM): and see the other as inferior
Danseuse810 (12:19:59 PM): true.
cool3cubed (12:20:13 PM): i agree
Danseuse810 (12:21:38 PM): he wants the sailors to go back and say that they discovered something so that Europe will think he is a hero
Fallenskye89 (12:21:59 PM): hes completely unwilling to accept that he could be a failure
Danseuse810 (12:22:56 PM): agreed. he doesnt want to discover as much as become a hero
Danseuse810 (12:23:06 PM): i think i read something about that once
He was more interested in power and being a hero, then actually discovering something good.
This goes to show that in the end, what they teach about Columbus in elementary school in the United States is a lie and that Columbus only paved the way for violence.
The use of aim in class was very interesting and it showed that once the discussion starts going people use aim to understand and further the discussion as well as change the direction of the oral conversation. It was a very interesting experiment and I hope it shows those who had doubts about aim being used in class that it can be a good thing to help solve confusion and help others get their point out if they are not allowed to talk in class.
1 comment:
Do motives need to matter to be a hero of discovery? I agree that the lower school version of Columbus is screwed up - the brave kind explorer who certainly did NOT mistreat Native Americans. But I would argue that he still deserves honorable recogniztion. Yes, he was motivated by gold, but almost everything we do is motivated by some desire for self gain. We sent men into space to stick it to the Russians, but that doesn't lessen the fact that we sent men into space. Columbus came for gold, but I dont think that lessens the fact that he sailed towards what was potentially the end of the world without any certainty he would return.
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